How to measure motivation and work flow?

Hi everyone,

It’s my first post here so let me quickly introduce myself (TL;DR - go to :checkered_flag: emoji) - I’m Michael and I’m passionate about expertising in myself. From physio-biological point of view up to mental/psychological state. I was or am measuring my nutrition intake, sleep time&condition, sport time&intensity, daily mood and how multiple different factors affects it (activities before sleep, bed time etc). But measuring those is easy in terms of what and how. The thing that is really hard to me is to find out…for what kind of job the current me is designed for - this is huge topic so I’ll cut it here as is to not dominate this post and just say that one of the main factors for “dream work” is the motivation - what motivates me, what gives me huge amount of energy every morning and keep awake every night. The challenge will not exist if there were simple answer like “today motivates me THIS, now motivates me THAT” - as we get older and we change our motivation changes too. Many people does not know what currently really motivates them and I’m no different. Of course - I’ve got some clues but how to prove it? How to eliminate all the data noices and pure evidence that this particular thing motivates me and gives me internal motivation for work. So I started to read about motivation. Daniel H Pink in his book “Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us” reference to Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi theory of Flow and advises to measure self work flow 40 times a week in random times.
:checkered_flag: I’m looking for an app that will measure my work flow (40 times a week in random times). The only app I’ve found is “In Flow” but it has been removed from stores (Gplay&iStore). I’ve also tested mood apps like PandaMood and MoodPath but those are focused on mood (your head) rather than motivation (job). Does anyone knows such apps and can recommend it?

Or maybe someone is also hunting his purpose and perfect job too? If so - reveal yourself immediately! :wink:

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You can be in perfect “flow” doing things you don’t really care about. Also, having an app that interrupts you to check if you were “in flow” prior to being interrupted seems a bit counterproductive? :slight_smile:

If you are concerned about long-term motivation, ensuring that you have enough time for self-reflection can be a good idea. For some people, going for regular walks is sufficient, while other people benefit from a more formal system with writing down and reviewing long- and short-term goals.

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If you’re in flow/motivated for a longer period of time (days), you’ll know - you’ll wake up excited to do the thing(s) that get you in flow.

Also, do you really, specifically, want a job? What is your ultimate goal? Is it a job, or is a job one of the possible means for attaining that? Consider this:

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I wonder if you might find it easier to track “returning” your attention to its desired object after a break in flow. This is what I’ve been tracking in my One Button meditation project, and it has been an interesting learning experience so far despite (or maybe because of) the stumbles. By tracking “returning,” I encourage myself to notice how often I drift from my focus, which is almost the negative image of flow: One Button Test: “Returning” After Meditation.

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Hi Michał

As @ejain points out, actively tracking flow would disrupt the flow state, whilst passively tracking a subjective experience like flow is difficult/impossible. I can think of some potential high-tech solutions we might explore as a community in the future, but for now I have some suggestions based on my own experience tracking flow / Deep Work.

If most of the time you spend working is on a computer, you could install RescueTime and use the free tier to automatically track how much time you spend on productive sites/applications vs. unproductive ones (as you define them in the settings). In my case, time I spend in coding IDEs, PDF readers, or work processors is considered highly productive and time spent on social media sites is considered distracting.

fig 1. Today’s productivity on RescueTime

I also use other task-specific tools like WakaTime to track time spent coding (which is a large portion of my meaningful work), but that may not be relevant to you right now.

Along with this passive RescueTime data, I keep a retrospective calendar (in a separate Google Calendar) where I track chunks of time spent working deeply. I usually log a chunk of deep work whenever I stop and take an extended break, rounding down to the nearest half hour. I estimate the start time using any timestamped action I did just before starting (e.g. a text message I sent). On that note, a great way to determine if you were in flow is if you were deliberately ignoring your phone (which should be making no sounds or vibrations or light if you’re trying to get into flow) and then ended up forgetting about it for hours on end. You could even track this using a smartphone app like Moment or with Apple’s built-in time tracking coming in a few months. If you’re on Android there will most certainly be similar (and likely better) tools.

Every day, I open up my “Daily Metrics” spreadsheet on Google Sheets and log my Subjective Productivity Rating (SPR) and the number of hours I logged of Deep Work / Flow, amongst other metrics. I also make note of what tasks I spent most of the day working on in 1-3 sentences. You can read more about my productivity tracking in this forum post.

Finally, you could implement the One Button Test strategy that @Agaricus suggested to you to track every time you break and then re-enter the flow state. Probably the easiest and cheapest way to go about this would be to install the Do Button app from IFTTT and configure a virtual button that, when pressed, logs the timestamp and location to a spreadsheet. You can then review this along with your other data.

By combining all of these data points, you should get a decent picture of where you spend your working time, the intensity with which you work, and which tasks you devote most cognitive energy to. If you need help with data analysis, this community will be more than willing to point you in the direction of some great resources and would be fascinated to know your findings.

On a final note, I think it’s quite possible that all of this effort — whilst fun and rewarding in its own right — is likely going to tell you what you already know. Often, uncertainty about career course stems from a reluctance to close doors to other possibilities. As much as it should be a human right, doing work you love is still a privilege for most. As a rule of thumb, if you find yourself repeatedly getting lost in the same creative tasks, that’s generally a good sign that you’ve found something worth pursuing. The scientist and author Cal Newport has two brilliant books on these topics — Deep Work and So Good They Can’t Ignore You — which I (and many others) would recommend. Start with So Good They Can’t Ignore You. A large portion of the book debunks the value of “looking for your passion” and the rest replaces it with a better approach to finding meaningful work. Then read Deep Work to learn how to best master your chosen vocation. Both books were of enormous value to me.

Good luck!

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Thanks a lot guys for amazing input and sharing your experiences. After reading your comments I must admit that such flow checking app may be far from perfect. And also as @Dan_Dascalescu said:

Such flow checking app may actually give me the feeling that I am doing something instead of actually bringing me closer to the goal.

Anyway - I find myself really excited on testing all tools and approaches you’ve suggested. To not start with everything all at once, I’ll start with the books @gianlucatruda suggested. Once read both of them I’ll see where it get me and start to plan next steps from there. I’ll share my afterthoughts here.

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Interesting Show and Tell from Madison Lukaczyk (How Work Distractions Affect My Focus) at this weekend’s QS2018 Conference. She works for RescueTime, and took RescueTime data into RStudio for some additional analysis on flow, and distractions. I’m sure she’ll post her charts soon.

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Hey there,
As promised - I’m coming back after reading both books suggested by @gianlucatruda.
I must admit, now I have a bit different perspective on motivation and work flow.
And I’m a bit in a dead end, the only thing I know is where I want to get.

  • To find a way to show a person which job(s) will match the most based on her/his current interests, work context, skills, knowledge and talents
    Above problem is very significant these days because of:
  • youths often don’t know what to do after high-school/college
  • adults at some point in their life want/need/have to change their profession (work stopped interesting them, activization after parental leave)

I have absolutely no idea how to get there and find answers for above. I know that there are some psychology tests (i.e. Holland career test) but they are far from perfect - in best they only narrow the options but still to too large data set.

Hi Michal

I sympathise with your position, but I feel that you are looking for more certainty than you are likely to find. Making the statistically best choices (based on your personal ‘values’) under uncertainty is the best way to proceed, but it may still feel like you don’t know precisely what is right for you.

The fact that you keep looking for more tests to take or resources to absorb makes me think you aren’t so much unsure of what you have to do as you are reluctant to commit. Perhaps have a look at the 80000hours website, as that may provide some more perspectives.

As you will recall from Newport’s books, you shouldn’t try to find a career that suits you. Instead, hone the skills that provide value to others and a career forms around that.

All the best in your journey.
Luca

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Hello Michal,

I hope I’m not too late to this thread, I just wanted to add my two cents and share what helped me find my path.

I think you are absolutely capable of using data to determine your career path, but as discussed here there are challenges to tracking flow states.

My suggestion is to focus on more on data and less on tracking it over time. What I mean by that is collect and analyze some past data from your life. Maybe look into Dependable Strengths. I’m not a facilitator (or associated with them in any way), but I went through a workshop once and it helped me figure out what I was uniquely suited for. As a data-driven individual I really appreciated the introspective data collection element.

They ask you to generate a list of “good experiences” (things you feel you did well, you enjoyed doing, and you feel proud of.) Collect as many as possible (they suggest ~10). In the workshop you read your top 3 aloud to others and they identify characteristics based on them (you’re patient, you enjoy analysis, you are really curious, etc) (data collection from outside of yourself). Then everyone shares and you look for similarities and consider how relevant those feel to you (data analysis).

Going through the workshop helped me identify how deeply I enjoy empowering and supporting other people which lead me to life coaching.

You may be looking for more day-to-day tracking to watch over time, but I wanted to toss in the introspective data collection approach.

Best wishes on your journey! I hope you find exactly what you’re looking for.

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Dr_JohnJohn K Pollard III3m
I find David Crenshaw on Lynda.com to be an amazing facilitator, particularly for Time Management Fundamentals, however he does have a short course on Discovering Your Strengths, which sounds like what you are looking for. There’s a free month trial, more than enough time to take a bunch of courses. Here’s a link that hopefully will work.

https://www.lynda.com/Leadership-Management-tutorials/Discovering-Your-Strengths/753893-2.html?srchtrk=index%3A6 linktypeid%3A2 q%3Adavid+crenshaw page%3A1 s%3Arelevance sa%3Atrue producttypeid%3A2

If you want to track flow in hindsight (not automatically while it happens but regularly about how often/much it has happened), a customizable subjective tracking app would work ( https://www.subjective.app/, http://knomeetheapp.com/, …)

you can define your own self-tracking pattern (in-flow, job satisfaction + any related context).

This requires that you have your own intuition (from books, academic study or personal experience) about what matters to experience more flow / better job satisfaction

Good luck !

I had no idea that RescueTime existed but I’ve been looking for something similar for years! Thanks so much for sharing that man; I’m going to start using it right away.

I think flow can be identified with the right visualizations. Full immersion in a task creates specific patterns on your daily timeline.

In the following chart, you can my flow state from 21:30 to 00:30. The 15 minute blocks in this period were almost entirely on productive applications, reflective of full immersion in a task.

Contrast this with a distracted work session where every time block had unproductive activity.

I also agree with @ejain in that flow is not indicative of motivation. Flow state is probably more a result of habits and your environment.

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