[quote=“tolerant, post:376, topic:561”]
how exactly would I measure the voltage of the battery, whether or not it’s on charge? … Assuming the Zeo battery has a capacity of 50mAh, it could safely only take 50mA of current when charging.[/quote]
Anywhere where the two terminals of the battery are connected, wherever it’s most convenient. If there’s a wire soldered to the circuit board going to the battery, the solder point is fine. If the battery terminal is exposed rather than insulated, also fine. Any solder pad on the circuit board connected to a terminal, also. Use a multimeter set to the appropriate voltage range. It’s possible that you get a measurable voltage across the charging contacts on the transmitter related to the battery voltage; if you hadn’t already opened it I’d have suggested probing the contacts immediately after the 30-second-lasting charge to see if there’s a voltage that decreases rapidly. Avoid bridging or short-circuiting any connections when applying the probes.
[quote]
Maybe an easier way would be, if I was seriously thinking of restoring the battery, to cut the wires at about half-way point and after rejuvenation is complete, to reconnect them by soldering.[/quote]
Whether you try to rejuvenate or test, or simply replace the battery, you’ll have to disconnect it. For a battery connected by wires rather than pins through the board, cutting them is often the best way. It also makes replacing easier (if you don’t cut the wires too close to the board), unless the assembly is so tiny that’s there’s no room to pack in soldered insulated joints.
Regarding the charger current rating: it just has to be capable of delivering the required charging current, higher rating is fine but ignored. I’ve found the Zeo battery seems to indicate full charge in about 1 hour (if memory serves, I did check it long ago), so the actual charging current is probably about 50mA (it would be, say, 5mA for a 10-hour charge, and so on). Any charger that can supply AT LEAST that current is fine. The manufacturer would buy a standard charger; 0.5A at 5V is simply probably the cheapest these days. If you want to fill tiny medicine bottles with water, you wouldn’t install a special tap that delivers a trickle, you’d just use an ordinary tap turned on just enough to deliver a trickle.
The primary differences as far as the CSV export is concerned is that the original contained the 5 minute hypnogram (used by SleepyHead) and Woody’s contains the 30 sec hypnogram data only. If there is enough demand, perhaps the author of Sleepyhead will incorporate the 30 sec data hypnogram into the program. The 30 sec hypnogram presents much more detailed information and is better suited for use in SleepyHead than the 5 minute hypnogram was.
BTW, it is difficult to test Zeo by wearing the headband while awake because it does not start recording until after a sleep stage has been determined.
I can not determine from your post which method you are using to retrieve your Zeo data, but if you’re not using Woody’s viewer referenced above, you should.
Thanks, I have teh bed side model. I was able to get a full nights data and the ze is working normally. I do have woody’s viewer and it looks good. I got in tough with the sleepy head developer and asked if he could look at the difference in the CSV files. I will pass on to him that the main difference is that the new file had data at 30 second intgervals, not 5 minutes, that make it an easy fix.
Thanks for the help. For now woodies printouts will do what I need for working with my neuro. - hormones messed up since a pitituary tumor and radiation to finish it off,
Thanks guys for your input on the battery issue. I did measure the voltage at a number of places, and every reading was exactly zero. I used another 3.7V battery as a reference to make sure there was no issue with the voltmeter. I haven’t tried to measure the voltage when the unit is charging or immediately after taking the battery off the charger. I think trying to rejuvenate a zero volt battery would be an expensive and difficult tasks, considering I don’t have the required equipment or skills. It should be much cheaper and easier to find another battery that fits into the unit. For that I’ll have to do an estimate of the thickest battery the unit will possibly take and see if one is available. If I do find one, I’ll write an update.
ResMed did acquire some of the Zeo assets including intellectual property. The anonymised sleep data were used to make comparisons with our extensive research on the sleep norms and various meta-analyses of sleep data during development of S+ by ResMed.
We have not reconstituted the Zeo platform. However, we are planning to offer a unique program to former Zeo customers (available in the US initially) so that they can build new data quickly and easily with S+. In the meantime, we love the vision that you and the QS movement have shown and want to do all we can to support healthy sleep.
Gary, would it be possible to PM me the contacts for Gary?
I use a resmed CPAP machine, since this is infering sleeping patterns from breathing, I want to see if they could build some if into their CPAP machines which measure the resperiation directly.
I made an interesting discovery of possible interest to Zeo Mobile users. Upgrading to iOS 8.1 on my iPad 3 brought back “Sleep History” functionality on the Zeo iOS app. Tapping Sleep History crashed the app in iOS7, but on my device the histograms are back in iOS8! I had prepared myself to lose all functionality, so this was a happy surprise.
I have a similar problem with 3D Vision glasses, and a dead battery. These are LiPo batteries as well.
Based on my reading and understanding of batteries (EE background, not totally guessing. :s) you should be able to replace the LiI/Po battery there with something used for RC planes. All the batteries are very similar, the 3.7V is the key.
Do not under any circumstances replace the battery with a coin-cell or anything not LiI/Po because there is a charging circuit there that will interact badly with non-chargeable batteries. NiCd, NiMH are the wrong voltage and will not work.
It’s possible battery itself has a circuit board, that’s how the 3D Vision glasses work. But your description of the tabs being soldered to the board itself suggest that it’s a stock LiI battery, and that the overvoltage protection is provided by the headband circuitry. This is what I would expect design-wise.
Here is a post regarding battery replacement in the glasses, and has some detail about sourcing the LiI battery.
In terms of soldering in a new battery, that is going to be very easy for someone with a little experience. Without experience, you’d be better off to find a local tech-shop of some form, or DIY group, or MakerFaire type people who can do this in their sleep.
A useful contribution by @bo3bber, above. In the last few pages of this thread overall in we seem to have gone from no information at all, to quite good information on replacement of the Zeo transmitter battery when it fails, with information from @Tolerant on opening the device, and a likely source of batteries from @Martinus. The particular tiny batteries available from the radio-controlled model supplier in China (linked from the URL that bo3bber gives) are a bit too thick for the Zeo, at 5mm. They had a huge range of batteries, but, from a quick glance, nothing suitable. The battery topic here starts at post #362. Unless I’ve missed something, it’s probably the only information available on the topic.
Maybe one of the first posts could say that there is a lot of information on battery replacement starting with the post mentioned above?
BTW, based on my research, the LiI batteries like these have a working life of about 5 years. That’s whether they are used or not. They don’t have a better shelf life than about 5 years. Apparently they start to degrade chemically as soon as they are made.
So, that means that all the batteries in headbands will die at some point, even if left on the charger. Or even if disconnected. And that if you find a replacement, try to make sure it’s not been sitting on a shelf, or get an idea of date of manufacture.
To contradict my earlier statement- you could use a coin cell Lithium battery as a replacement, but you’d have to make an on/off switch and never put it on the charger. As long as you can get 3.7 Volts the head band should work. I think you would be better off working with the correct chemistry though.
As a former Zeo user, I recently got an email from Resmed offering a discount on the S+. I’m really curious to see how these compare. Are there any current Zeo users out there who have used the S+ in addition to the Zeo? I’d love to see some feedback on whether the data returned by each device matches.
I’ve been using the Zeo Mobile for a few months, and recently purchased a Resmed S+. It’s taken me ~3 weeks to fine tune its position such that my wife’s movement doesn’t interfere, but I think it almost there now… I have done a couple of comparison tests with the Zeo and it seems to roughly match up but not as well as I’d expect. However I dont know how much of the discrepancy is due to the S+ not being positioned properly!
I’ll gather some more data over the Christmas break and post it here.
Some general comments on the S+ from my experience so far:
PROS:
Great user experience, flawless Bluetooth connectivity (Android phone)
Microwave sensor is very impressive for a consumer device
Resmed have obviously put a lot of work into it
CONS:
Incredibly difficult to find ‘just the right’ positioning of the pod. I haven’t done a great deal to isolate the root cause of the issue, but it consistently thinks I’m awake for a total of ~1hr during the night when the Zeo (and my memory) says otherwise
Setup and troubleshooting documentation from Resmed is very poor. They provide a ‘not to scale’ diagram of the ideal setup which is of little help, and the help section regarding setup issues is very scarce. In their defense I did receive a couple of good tips after contacting customer support, and they did offer to help fine tune setup if I send photos etc. My suggestion would be: provide detailed diagrams of setup requirements, a detailed troubleshooting guide, and some live feedback to the user as to the quality of the signal. The most frustrating thing is that you have to wait until the NEXT DAY to figure out how the change in setup affected sleep detection. Hence the incredibly cumbersome fine tuning process…
No access to any raw data beyond the hypnogram and sleep stage breakdown (and temperature/light level)
Seems like a lot of cons, but really I’m quite happy with the S+. It has a lot of potential, so hopefully some of these issues can be fixed with firmware updates.
If it is that hard to setup the S+ initially, I wonder if it is also difficult to keep it set up. Would some little variation cause you to set up over again? Is the set up positional only, or is there some sort of tuning also?
Yep, it’s a bit of a nightmare to keep it in just the right spot. Especially if you have a curious dog/cat!
Setup is positional only, absolutely no control over anything else.
After looking into this issue further, I’m pretty confident that the main problem is that the S+ sleep staging algorithm appears to be designed specifically for people with perfectly ‘normal’ sleep. After filming myself sleep and correlating video footage with S+ and Zeo data, it seems that I move around quite a bit while asleep. No violent kicks or anything, just gradual arm/leg movements & rolling over etc. The S+ seems to classify REM sleep based on a) variable breathing intensity/frequency and b) NO movement. Since I tend to have ‘a’ but not always ‘b’ during REM, the algorithm’s next best guess is AWAKE.
This issue would be easily resolved if they had an adjustment for movement sensitivity, or even a simple 1-2 night calibration period. I suspect the reason that Resmed hasn’t done any of this and wont/cant answer tech support questions beyond what is listed in the FAQ is that they have merely repackaged existing technology, including most if not all of the firmware & backend sleep staging algorithm. I may be wrong of course, but it certainly seems this way after dealing with tech support.
Hoping someone can please help with a couple questions…
1.) Is there currently any way to recover my old data that might still be on the zeo?
and
2.) Assuming I follow the instructions for updating the firmware, is there anyway to view the data in any kind of meaningful way? Can I view it as a chart (like the display on the front of the zeo), or will it just be a string of nonsensical data?