Would you be willing to share your source code on the JAVA program you wrote?
Thank you!
Hi Krisp,
I guess it depends on what you want to do with the data. My vote is to start with the SD card approach.
I have used the SD card data to view nightly sleep data. You should be looking at your sleep data within a day, if all goes well (Load updated firmware into ZEO bedside unit, Erase data on SD card with ZEO bedside, Sleep, Transfer data from SD card to computer, Run Java application to decode data, Open resulting text file and explore). I think the SD card data is probably sufficient for combining with other sensors (Heart rate, Pulse OX, Movement, Sound, Light, etc.) and life events (Diet, Stress, Activity, Medication, Environment, Routines, etc.) to decide what changes need to be made to improve your sleep (I believe this was the intent of the ZEO Sleep Journal and Coaching).
I have been considering the raw data output from the serial cable approach for more detailed/realtime information (specific brain wave data) which could be used for things like Lucid Dreaming and REM games. I have the raw data cable, but I have not modified it to connect to the ZEO nor have I worked out the details of the USB interface from the cable to my MAC. Then I have to figure out what I want to do with the data. My assumption is that to get the cable setup running will require days not hours to wring out since it is outside my area of expertise. What to do with the data is a longer, less defied activity. I have used the Neurosky Mindwave hardware and BrainWave Visualizer to look at the frequency spectrum of brainwave data and the processing is not obvious.
Thanks OP, that was most helpful. Based on my skill set I think I will go the route you mention and wait and see if someone is able to shine a light on the serial cable approach. Truth is I do want the more detailed data but can’t afford to spend days troubleshooting right now.
Well the difference is basically in moving a laptop to the bedroom and record and monitor real-time. Which sounds non-trivial to me. Even if there is a steamlined app you can used on said laptop. Then you would need to set everything up, and leave a laptop running all night in the room. Which could cause sleep problems for some. I wear ear plugs anyways because I have a pet that makes noise, so I can’t see it personally being a problem but I figured I would raise that point. HOWEVER it sounds like the serial output from the bedside unit might be more useful. Such as brain-wave data, instead of the sleep stage data. But I really don’t know how much more useful that would be for monitoring sleep. Maybe if you want to measure brain wave data for some other purpose, such as monitoring how drugs affect your brain state or something, then the extra data would help. At that stage you would be better off with a different more streamlined product which outputs that data in an easier way to processed. Such as the above mentioned Neurosky product, which i’ve heard is excellent and is $180 for the whole set. You get support and the lot…zeo being out of business and all figured that was worth mentioning.
To surmise, the sd card method seems best overall for using sleep data to try to remedy sleep affecting issues. Unless you have a spare laptop to setup in the room semi-permanent, and time to set up everything. Involving setting up a serial monitor to parse the data, etc.
On a different note, anyone know if the headband from the bedside unit can be used with the android/iphone app?
I have since found out that the android version is the only one that supports the open api. Which would make a custom app possible. When I get my headband mobile unit, I’ll whip up something. Custom app that connects to the zeo app api, logs data independently, I’ll set up a website that the app syncs to and try to emulate(maybe surpass) the features of the myzeo service. Iphone has no such open api it seems.
@krisp, do not forget to format the SD card after updating firmware. Otherwise you still find an encrypted zeosleep.dat on your SD card the night after. Read also post #6.
@Frederic, does your java program also run on a Windows machine? And other question, can it read the unencrypted zeosleep.dat (or converted zeosleep.txt or xml) from the zeo bedside?
After checking out the Neurosky Mindwave I have decided it is going to be much better suited for what I am doing. Looks amazing actually. I feel like I am witnessing the birth of a new era with these personal brain machine interfaces, though these are the perhaps Pong years. Exciting things to come!
@OP Engr: I added the source code of the program in the archive.
@damnsharp: Yes, you should be able to run the program on Windows, however, it will not be able to process the zeosleep.dat file from your bedsize since I guess that the latter does not follow the same data models as in the iPhone app (but I cannot check since I do not have a bedsize unit). I could have a look if you send me out an excerpt of the file.
So I’m really late to the game - I was an enthusiastic Zeo user until about 8 months ago when my data got too depressing (I have an 8 month old daughter!) I’m finally ready to get back to tracking sleep and I was having trouble syncing my Bluetooth and zeo - a quick google search leads me to the news that zeo shut down. What a pity. I did a focus group for them last summer!
Anyway here’s my situation: I don’t care about my old data (it was so long ago) but I’d like to be able to track agin. But I can’t seem to pair my device - my Bluetooth just keeps “searching” for my zeo and even though the blue light is on my zeo, nothing happens. Is my zeo just kaput?
Also even assuming I can get it up and running - my headband was at the end of its life. I’m not really the DIY type, (I did see an online DIY tutorial) any other source for replacement headbands?
Thanks for any advice on getting it working again!
Not sure about mobile unit (I have the bedside version), however answers to the following questions may help get your problem resolved by the community. I am assuming you captured a night of data and are trying to sync with your phone. Have you reviewed the manual for pairing procedure? Was the headband electronics kept charged during your 8 month hiatus (wondering if something reset during the 8 months)? Are there special steps required to pair with a new headband beyond just pairing with an existing one? Does the headband seem to hold a battery charge over night? Is the headband clean (the data degrades as the headband gets dirty. I believe you can unsnap the electronics and gently wash and dry it.)? Is you phone IOS or Android? Are other Bluetooth devices working with the phone? Do you have a laptop or desktop that could be used to look for the bluetooth signal from the headband? If you delete the app (assuming you do not want the old data) and then reinstall, will it pair with the headband. Do you have other devices/phones you could try pairing the headband to?
Amazon sells a mobile headband that uses an adhesive replacement sensor. It should get you a months worth of data. I purchased one for my bedside unit, but I still have life on my existing headband. I also looked at the DIY link and it looked a bit complicated for what I want. Hopefully the demand for replacements will create a new source for headbands.
eBay seems to have a thriving resale market on Zeo devices if you need to get a replacement system.
Hope this helps.
Hi Frederic,
Thank you for providing the source code. Not sure where I am looking for the archive. Can you provide a URL.
Mattel Toys has been offering a MindFLex toy for several years, where you out concentrate your opponent (based on brain waves) to win. At less then $100 I was blown away. The NeuroSky Mindwave uses the same electronics and is more flexible. I used it to evaluate meditation approaches. Their mind control game selection is somewhat limited. I have not worked out the details of direct data collection from the unit. When I get back to it I will start a QS thread on my results.
The Mindwave headset is problematic for sleep measurements hence my purchase of a ZEO.
This thread is wandering with the Mindwave discussion but it’s wandering in a direction that is useful in its own right. I’ll keep an eye on it, and if there’s interest in continuing this subthread I’ll move it to its own spot…
Thanks for your reply! I think my headband was just not fully charged so maybe not sending out a strong enough bluetooth signal (I do have zeo mobile and was syncing with my iPhone) I wasn’t even able to record a night - or even start tracking for that matter. But I tried agin this morning and I’m at least able to start tracking.
So I guess my only issue now is a replacement headband. Mine is working for now so we’ll see how it goes.
I’m going to get a fitbit soon anyway, it’s back ordered on amazon. That will give me some sleep data although not the detailed info on sleep stages like zeo. But how many devices can I wear:)
I think we should start a new thread, I would even suggest a new broad category of “Mind Mapping/Control.” This would include hardware and app concerns and well as theoretical concerns. Or perhaps just a category “Mind” which would go with the previous related categories of Mood and Sleep. I have some things I would like to post in this category so it would be cool to see something like this happen soon. I don’t see the logical place to have the conversation I am interested in at this point. What do you think?
I’ve started a thread called “Mind” (open discussion) for anything related to general EEG, Neurosky topics, etc. I didn’t move any posts because it would interrupt the flow here, but feel free to take the discussion there anywhere you like.
My name is Mike. I would like to add to this discussion on a few topics. The first is one of the reasons that Zeo, Inc. may have gone out of business. First off, I think that they limited themselves on multiple fronts. Forgive me if this seems disjointed in reading. I am without a doubt not a professional writer.
From what I could see as a user of this product there were a few things just in-house that they could have done to not only extend the market viability of their product, but would have helped the product users more than any other of the products on the market.
a. The thing that those of us who truly enjoy using data to find out new things about ourselves is the data. Being able to extract the raw data with the needed references to use the data correctly would have done them and us better.
b. Data input to the webpage could have been easier for some aspects of it. An easy way to put in reasons for waking up. As an example within the mobile app being able to do a quick set of taps to say “getting up to use the rest room, noise, temp, dreams, etc.” This way we would not have to try to remember doing anything, but just taping these in and a time stamp with data would be added. From there we could have accessed the webpage to fill in and expand that data.
c. The analyzing of this data could have included better ways to find patterns within the data. Say a noise that wakes you up at about the same time every or every couple of nights. It could either be any number of things that would help you to improve the sleeping environment or maybe find problems with yourself.
d. There are times in our lives when we know that we can get our needed 7-9 hours of sleep. That being the case why did they not add a special alarm that would wake you after you got that sleep?
e. Reminders – some of us would have enjoyed a reminder option for things like winding down, getting ready for bed, etc.
Now for some ideas from outside the company. These do not need to be incorporated into the device itself, but if the data can be imported and/or Zeo data exported to these areas then you could do some good things with it. What would be needed would be working with the users and the suppliers in refining the tagging and transfer of the data to increase its usefulness.
a. This article and others like it (“Recent Developments in Home Sleep-Monitoring Devices”) provide some really good ideas for using other website, apps, and equipment to use in conjunction with each other to improve our understanding with ourselves and to improve the data about our sleep. With these and the raw tagged data from them, others and we could better quantify the data from each data input type.
b. This idea and application is just one aspect of what could be done in another app and website that could be incorporated into the data used to get better sleep.
Ideas for and improving their site and products could have used ideas from other company’s products without patent steeling.
a. Take the Lark; it uses accelerometers along with actigraphy logarithms to get similar results. These are small and could have been added to the Zeo without really increasing its size and weight much. This would help show how much the user tossed and turned while sleeping. This data could also have added to finding a more realistic idea of how well you slept.
b. Keeping in mind that this is a monitor with a decent range to it could also have been used to monitor family members. The monitoring would not just have to be for sleep quality, but for safety reason to boot. As an example, let us say you have a child, that sleep walks. With accelerometers installed, you could be alerted if the child was in an upright position and moving about while the brain activity was still saying they were asleep. Then again, I do not know if this is possible. I can just throwing ideas out there.
Getting ideas from other sources. Yes, they had a suggestion page, but after combing the internet on a search for ways to keep using my device and data I found many places for both complaints and suggestions. Magazine reviews, the places that sell the Zeo also have reviews on the device on their websites. Then there are forums like this along with medical and college researchers. In addition, in some cases the Government has done some things with it. With all these areas to look ideas about what can be done and in some cases how.
There are also another set of sensors that could be used to help. An example is environmental sensors. Take http://cubesensors.com/ for finding more data to added to the picture to find external things that could be interfering with your sleep.
Note: Keeping in mind this also applies in many ways to the other company’s that provide the devices we use.
I am working on getting a few of these devices and apps to use both with my sleep, but also with my over all physical and mental health. Any ideas on combinations of these would be helpful.
My perception on this thread is that there have been two groups. The first just wants to get their ZEO up and running and collect new data (possibly pulling up old data). From my own experience trying to replicate the ZEO webpage output, I can appreciate the effort ZEO put into what they did provide. The ZEO website provided an Excel download of data for personal processing and now some of us are using the decoder program they provided to extract our data. I believe that is the established focus for this thread.
The second group was pushing at extending the usage of their device with different algorithms and merging with other sensors (note the second group has moved to a new open discussion “Mind”. Your link to the NIH article would go well there, along with the cube sensor information. I think my ZEO merged with accelerometer data will go there also.
I am not sure where the part of your post involving improving a company goes. I read those reviews and have identified solutions to some of their complaints. I will wait for the HBR article to come out on on why they failed.
Good luck on merging data from several devices to improve your health. I am interested in your successes and failures. I encourage you to post the results on the Mind thread.
Granted, this thread is about that, I was getting to that. I have to admit that I have yet figured out how to extract my data from my Zeo on to my computer so that I can use it. Non of the programs I have tried so far have recognized that it is even plugged into my computer.
However, I think that as you view parts of my post you will see that I have been looking into finding a replacement. I have also been trying to find other things to augment what I have. On that note as I am sure everyone is aware what we eat and drink also affects our sleep. So, improvements to the program would be a app and website that helped track what you ate. With this in mind it would also need to have categories that recorded things like caffeine, spicy food, fatty foods, etc.
Mike,
What type of ZEO do you have, Bedside or Mobile? There are discussions in this thread on locating the Mobile files on an Android system. The Bedside has an SD Card with a ZEO folder that has the ZEOSLEEP.DAT file for the data. Processing the Bedside data assumes that you have loaded the revised firmware that removes data encryption (also discussed in this thread).
Good Luck